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08.29.2007 (previous | next)
IPI Price of Piracy Study

IPI has released a study on the economic costs of piracy. These studies often use some controversial assumptions, but my understanding is that this particular study used more conservative methodology than some of the industry studies and it is worth looking at. I'll also try to track substantive critiques and responses, as they come in.

Techdirt chimed in early here; Sadly, the critic does not appear to have read the study, as he states that the IPI study assumes that each pirated copy equals a sale. In fact, the IPI study does *not* make that assumption; it counts 20% of illegal downloads as lost sales, and 65.7% of pirated CDs as lost sales. [Note: The TechDirt critique has been corrected].

Measuring this effect gets awfully complicated. What about the advertising effect--the fact that downloads might lead to sales? What about the counter-advertising effect--the fact that some sales lead to downloads? (One study showed that some music consumers buy a tune on iTunes, and if they like it, will download the whole album for free illegally).

Are the lost sales figures *net* losses--that is, taking both of these effects into account? Or is there still more figgering to be done? When I looked into this writing on computer games, there was little raw data to help--but there was some. The data showed that a lot of game rentals--76 percent--lead to sales. But pirated copies of games tended to *supplant* sales (net)--with about 73 percent of gamers reporting that they would have bought the game if they had not gotten the pirated version. An additional bit of meta-data--if there is a strong "free advertising" effect from downloads, retail sales should be soaring. They are not. It seems likely that the advertising effect from pirated stuff is weak--certainly not a net positive. Add in the decided peculiarities of some of the studies that purport to show no negative effect on sales from downloading, and data to the contrary (come back for more on this forthcoming in future) ... and the skeptical attacks on the IPI assumptions look more like hooliganism than serious scholarship.

Some skeptics, though, make an argument that is worth looking at in more detail. That is, the argument that lost jobs in the U.S. from piracy do not materialize, as workers find work elsewhere. (Obviously, for brevity, I'm severely truncating the argument--my purpose is not to make it here, but to refer to it.) This argument is a familiar one. One might here a version of this argument, for example, in a discussion of plant closures. Workers will be re-employed elsewhere; the overall outcome is still efficient. But piracy and plant closures are very different. The argument is correct for plant closures, but it doesn't work for piracy. What's the difference?

The difference is that the closure of a plant comes about without violating anyone's rights. People are making decisions about what to do with their *own* resources; they are making mutually beneficial trades, increasing wealth overall though there is hardship for some. But economic losses that come about when rights are violated opens a different can of worms entirely. Ripping people off does not take place within this realm of wealth-creating trades. One would never argue that job losses or lost sales that came about as a result of losses due to credit card theft would be efficient overall, because the workers would find other jobs!

The argument, therefore, that economic losses as a result of piracy are efficient can only consistently be made if one does not believe that copyright ought to exist at all... Which is certainly an argument that can be made (though as I've stated elsewhere I believe it rests on an oversimplification of natural rights theory). But this is not a line of argument available to run of the mill IP skeptics, who purport to support copyright in theory though they seem to oppose any attempt to actually enforce it.

posted by Solveig Singleton @ 3:10 PM | Economics, Game Theory & Public Choice

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Comments

Techdirt chimed in early here; Sadly, the critic does not appear to have read the study, as he states that the IPI study assumes that each pirated copy equals a sale.

Solveig, it's odd of you to say that. That mistake was corrected last weekend. Yet, here you are, days later, claiming that I still made that mistake. Did you make a mistake or did you purposely ignore the correction?

Will you correct your mistake as I corrected mine?

Secondly, your point at the end doesn't make any sense at all. The complaint we have with the ripple effects isn't in saying that there are no job losses due to piracy, but in saying that they'll only count the negative ripple effects and none of the positive ripple effects.

Posted by: Mike Masnick at August 30, 2007 6:10 AM

Odd. I just tried to post this and it seemed to disappear. Let's try again.

Solveig,

I find it strange that you would claim that Techdirt mistakenly says that the IPI study counts every copy as a loss. It *did* say that briefly on Friday, but was corrected on Saturday. Five days before you posted this.

I'm at a loss to explain why you would ignore that change that happened well before you wrote your story. Of course, since you've now made a mistake in your post, will you correct it like I corrected mine?

Furthermore, your final point makes no sense. We're not complaining that no jobs are lost to piracy. We're complaining that the IPI study counts only the negative ripple effects (and grossly overstates those) and ignores every positive ripple effect.

You also make the faulty assumption that copyright infringement is "ripping people off." Your entire argument is based on that, and it's simply not true. So, you might want to rewrite a lot of this post. Both your facts and your assumptions are wrong. But, hey, we all make mistakes.

Posted by: Mike Masnick at August 30, 2007 6:19 AM

I'm giving up. Not sure why your site asks for comments, but when I submit them they disappear. If they're being held for moderation, why not just say that like every other site?

Shouldn't surprise me that PFF is technically clueless, considering their tech policies tend to be...

Posted by: Mike Masnick at August 30, 2007 6:21 AM

Masnick youre trying rather hard.

We're not in the marketing intelligence biz and thus disagree with Tech Dirt on many issues.

I find it humorous that as a purported business oriented entity Tech Dirt often agrees with organizations that publicly want to weaken the commercial sector:-)

Posted by: Noel at August 30, 2007 6:51 AM

Dear Mike,

Comments are not moderated (what a thankless job that would be), but some may be caught in our automated spam filters, particularly if one posts repeatedly within a short period of time.

My thanks for the update on your correction. My review of your review was written shortly after your review appeared, but I posted it later and in the meantime had no reason to revisit your review. Your certainty that you are entitled to the benefit of the doubt on such points seems misplaced, reciprocity being a good rule of thumb here.

-SS

Posted by: Solveig at August 30, 2007 12:17 PM

Do you think it makes sense to double-count both the direct losses to the recording industry and the indirect losses to their suppliers?

Posted by: Tim at August 30, 2007 1:45 PM

Tim, again, I must ask if you're simply talking to yourself. Counting direct and indirect effects of economic actiity is pretty standard.

On the other hand, Tim, do you think it makes sense to liken Web 2.0 to the Boston Tea Party. Wait, oh yeah...

Posted by: Noel at August 30, 2007 3:02 PM

Off the top of my head, I don't think it is double-counting; if one doesn't do it, I am not sure how one would capture the losses to the suppliers and one would be missing the total economic losses. One would have only the losses to the recording industry and not the downstream effects.

But one caveat: There are several different ways that one could structure a cost study. Suppose one structures the study one way (counting gross revenue losses, say) and comes up with a number, say $10. And one structures the study another way (counting profit losses, say) and comes up with a smaller number, say $4. As long as the methodology is transparent, one way isn't magically "better" than the other. It still gives you information, just different information.

One place to start it is to look at whether a study used a conventional methodology; if so, it has value as a point of comparison even if the figures it comes up with are not entirely satisfying as absolutes. E.g. we study losses from identity theft and come up with a figure of $100; losses due to shoplifting and come up with a figure of $500; and losses due to piracy and come up with a figure of $400. If all the studies use the same methodology we can do a meaningful comparison of scope. There isn't then much point in arguing with the methodology, because the study is still of considerable value.

If a study doesn't adopt conventions, well, then the comparisons don't work. But the study can still be helpful, depending on how and why the study departed from the conventions. Sometimes it is unavoidable if certain data is not available, sometimes it makes sense for other reasons.

My sense is that IPI tried to go out of its way with this study to avoid controversial methodologies; and Stephen Siwek is highly qualified to structure such a study. The idea that he has made a methodological error of the sort that a casual reviewer could spot easily seems unlikely; but then, I'm not an expert in the structure of such studies. By all means, drop him and Tom a note; IPI is happy to discuss methodology in some detail, though I think they are a little tired of attitude.

Posted by: Solveig at August 30, 2007 3:38 PM

Noel... kindly do not bait our friend Tim.

Posted by: Solveig at August 30, 2007 3:41 PM

We're not in the marketing intelligence biz and thus disagree with Tech Dirt on many issues.

Huh? My positions have nothing to do with Techdirt's business.

I find it humorous that as a purported business oriented entity Tech Dirt often agrees with organizations that publicly want to weaken the commercial sector:-)

Well, Noel, no surprise, but you appear to have misread my statements again. I'm not trying to weaken the commercial sector at all. I'm trying to strengthen it, by showing how relying on gov't regulations harms the marketplace. That's what PFF usually claims. Not sure why you guys have such a blindness to it in this case.

If anyone's weakened a commercial sector with their policy recommendations its PFF and its ridiculous focus on strengthening market destroying intellectual property laws.

It amazes me that a group such as yours that claims to be against regulations and in favor of markets is in favor of gov't granted monopolies.

Posted by: Mike Masnick at August 30, 2007 6:53 PM

"I am not sure how one would capture the losses to the suppliers and one would be missing the total economic losses."

But aren't the "losses to the suppliers" saved expenses for the record company? That is, if a record company loses a $20 CD sale, and $6 of that loss would have gone to an upstream supplier (let's say it's the company manufacturing the physical CD), the $6 loss to the supplier is *already reflected* in the $20 the record company lost, because $6 of the $20 would have been passed on to the supplier. You can either count that $6 when it passes from the foreign customer to the record label, or you can count it when it passes from the label to the upstream supplier. But it makes no sense at all to count it both times, because it's the same $6 in both cases.

No matter how many times a given dollar changes hands, it's still just one dollar, and if we're trying to calculate the change in national wealth, we should only count each dollar once, not every time it has a new owner.


Posted by: Tim Lee at August 30, 2007 9:16 PM

Tim, I believe the IPI study looks at activity, not growth.

Masnick writes- "It amazes me that a group such as yours that claims to be against regulations and in favor of markets is in favor of gov't granted monopolies."

Thats because we're not caught on marketing buzzwords like "government granted monopolies." BTW The government has always had a role in Internet innovation, reaching back to DARPA funded academic projects, procurement policies intended to fuel a private sector to commercialize basic research. I could go on, but I think the debate would get back to what you and I have already discussed Masnick- I don't believe in perfectly free markets nor attempting to achieve perfectly free markets out of ideology.

IPRs create markets- for the exchange of ideas, appropriation of investment, coordination of pioneering R&D and the new phenomenon of "open innovation" (of which FOSS is also a part if there is a business model inolved).

I get the feeling Masnick, that when you talk about IPRs destroying markets, you are referring to the path dependence set by regulatory policies. Of course there are always tradeoffs when policies are set in place, but I don't believe greater innovation would occur with weakened IPRs.

Posted by: Noel at August 30, 2007 9:42 PM

"but I don't believe greater innovation would occur with weakened IPRs."

Then you haven't been paying attention.

Posted by: Mike Masnick at August 31, 2007 1:58 AM

Oh yeah, there are the free culture and FOSS revolutions you couldn't give away for free!

Posted by: Noel at August 31, 2007 2:34 AM








 
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